This is the online discussion of teachers as we move through the lesson study process. Lesson Study provides an efficient organization for teachers to collaborate as we learn more about our content and how students learn.
Sunday, February 8, 2009
Please Post Here After February 8
I certainly appreciate the different perspectives as well as the different aspects of percents which we have analyzed. I am learning! Please keep brainstorming your different thoughts before we narrow our focus.
We are searching for advice .We are struggling with specific percent knowledge our fifth graders should have.
Our new standards state that in 4th grade students should relate halves, fourths, tenths, and hundredths to decimals and percents. These representations should be related through both models and symbols. This is the only standard addressing percents in the elementary curriculum. There is no mention of percents in the 5th grade standards although the district curriculum map has a benchmark for the above standard in 5th grade.
There is not specific language which focuses on teaching the meaning of percent: a ratio that compares a number to 100. Ratios are not taught until middle school. Is this too challenging for elementary students? Is it not developmentally appropriate? Are we wasting energy in trying to help students understand this meaning? Do you think the writers of the standards considered this as an essential element of this standard and they didn’t need to spell it out?
We are just looking for a bit of guidance on whether to just generally make the statements that percent means out of a 100 then quickly move to relating it to fraction or decimals or whether to work on a research lesson which develops this meaning.
To me, the preparation of younger kids is simply understanding the number 100, relative magnitude within 100, the idea of part-whole, and maybe simple fractions like one-half and one-fourth. Percent is a sophisticated concept. As with probability, I think we make a mistake trying to address it beyond those thinigs too early. I guess we could add understanding the concept of “all.” (Later they will see 100 percent as all of something.) That easily relates to working with situational problems with a part-part whole context.
The 2/13/10:25 comment was in response to a query on the old site about what primary children should know about percent.
Gaea Leinhardt's research on percent also distinguishes it as not being a number in the same way as fractions or decimals. Given that the fourth grade standard therefore seems to be out of place, unless there are multiple questions related to it on the 4th or 5th grade FCAT I would personally ignore it.
If percent is not otherwise a part of your elementary curriculum, would you do more for kids mathematically pursuing Becky's suggestion of developing meaning for percent or focusing on making a linkage that is questionable?
Maybe you will find these interesting/useful. By the way, another thing you may notice is that these are about a grade 6 standard. They introduce percents in Grade 5 in the GA standards, but they basically use 100-squares.
Please remember we are to meet at 2:30 on Wednesday, Feb. 11.
ReplyDeleteWe are searching for advice .We are struggling with specific percent knowledge our fifth graders should have.
ReplyDeleteOur new standards state that in 4th grade students should relate halves, fourths, tenths, and hundredths to decimals and percents. These representations should be related through both models and symbols. This is the only standard addressing percents in the elementary curriculum.
There is no mention of percents in the 5th grade standards although the district curriculum map has a benchmark for the above standard in 5th grade.
There is not specific language which focuses on teaching the meaning of percent: a ratio that compares a number to 100. Ratios are not taught until middle school.
Is this too challenging for elementary students? Is it not developmentally appropriate? Are we wasting energy in trying to help students understand this meaning?
Do you think the writers of the standards considered this as an essential element of this standard and they didn’t need to spell it out?
We are just looking for a bit of guidance on whether to just generally make the statements that percent means out of a 100 then quickly move to relating it to fraction or decimals or whether to work on a research lesson which develops this meaning.
Thank you,
Becky
Alice said,
ReplyDeleteTo me, the preparation of younger kids is simply understanding the number 100, relative magnitude within 100, the idea of part-whole, and maybe simple fractions like one-half and one-fourth. Percent is a sophisticated concept. As with probability, I think we make a mistake trying to address it beyond those thinigs too early. I guess we could add understanding the concept of “all.” (Later they will see 100 percent as all of something.) That easily relates to working with situational problems with a part-part whole context.
The 2/13/10:25 comment was in response to a query on the old site about what primary children should know about percent.
ReplyDeleteGaea Leinhardt's research on percent also distinguishes it as not being a number in the same way as fractions or decimals. Given that the fourth grade standard therefore seems to be out of place, unless there are multiple questions related to it on the 4th or 5th grade FCAT I would personally ignore it.
If percent is not otherwise a part of your elementary curriculum, would you do more for kids mathematically pursuing Becky's suggestion of developing meaning for percent or focusing on making a linkage that is questionable?
Alice
A while back, I wrote something about percents in my blog elaborating on the GA standards. Here are the addresses:
ReplyDeletehttp://mathgpselaboration.blogspot.com/2007/12/m6n1-f-part-1.html
http://mathgpselaboration.blogspot.com/2007/12/m6n1f-part-2.html
Maybe you will find these interesting/useful. By the way, another thing you may notice is that these are about a grade 6 standard. They introduce percents in Grade 5 in the GA standards, but they basically use 100-squares.
Tad
Tad,
ReplyDeleteYour simple example statements of why percents are not interchangeable with fractions and decimals are terrific!
Alice